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yoasif

@ yoasif @fedia.io

Posts
16
Comments
39
Joined
2 yr. ago

  • Removed

    Mozilla Turns Firefox Away from Open Source, Towards Spyware: Firefox Labs Now Requires Data Collection

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  • Removed

    Mozilla Turns Firefox Away from Open Source, Towards Spyware: Firefox Labs Now Requires Data Collection

    Jump
  • Removed

    Mozilla Turns Firefox Away from Open Source, Towards Spyware: Firefox Labs Now Requires Data Collection

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  • Plenty of OSS licenses have rules baked into them about how you can use the code, or lay out obligations for redistribution.

    "Is it really open source if I have to edit the source code I was given to remove a feature I don't like?"

    I'm really not being aggressive about this position and I tried to express the ambiguity here. I think what irks me most are these things:

    1. Forking Firefox means it isn't Firefox - yes, this means that the original was OSS, but you really need to be an expert to get at all the OSS code running on your machine. I mean that it is literally not Firefox, since your fork doesn't have permission to use the trademarked name.
    2. If we think of the enabling functionality in Firefox as a virtual lock, breaking that lock is illegal under the DMCA. That seems very weird for code that is ostensibly open source.
    3. The addition of the Terms to Firefox seems like an additional restriction (a la Grsecurity, as I mentioned in the post) to the existing license in Firefox. Indeed, Mozilla says that the existing license isn't "transparent" enough for Firefox users.

    Yes, the purpose of a system is what it does, but the author isn't presenting any evidence of what it's doing vis a vis their claim of making technical users quit FF.

    The purpose of the system being what it does is Firefox being spyware - you can't escape it if you want to use Labs features.

    Love the feedback, and I while I think Firefox is open source, I do see the addition of software locks as backing away from OSS.

    I also went ahead and posted a small update with some additional clarifying thoughts - I don't think it will satisfy you, unfortunately - but it might help people understand where I am coming from.

  • The Forced Firefox Terms of Use (ToS) Clickwrap Agreement is Here

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  • Well - I don't know about them being the same.

    The new terms specifically disclaims Mozilla's ownership of your data:

    This does not give Mozilla any ownership in that content.

    which limits their license to your data to processing it for usage within Firefox or Mozilla services. That is a huge difference. I don't see how they would be able to claim - in a clickwrap agreement - that Mozilla saying that they don't own your data somehow grants Mozilla ownership of your data.

    That would be mind boggling.

  • The Forced Firefox Terms of Use (ToS) Clickwrap Agreement is Here

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  • My feeling on this is basically with Mozilla potentially running advertising campaigns on their own in Firefox (especially with Google funding possibly drying up), Mozilla felt that they needed to clarify their permission for access to user data.

    Still, that doesn't really explain why their initial terms were so over-broad in the first place -- that is why everyone's thinking went straight to AI as soon as they made their initial announcement. They haven't deigned to provide us with an explanation for that - besides telling us that it was due to the CCPA.

    Clearly we can't lay all the blame on CCPA, since the rights grant is more limited today than at first introduction - a fact that they readily admit.

  • The Forced Firefox Terms of Use (ToS) Clickwrap Agreement is Here

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  • Yep, it is also not enabled for Linux, and your distribution might not be using a Mozilla binary anyway.

  • The Forced Firefox Terms of Use (ToS) Clickwrap Agreement is Here

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  • Right now, it is for new users only. Existing users are going to have to opt in at some later date.

  • Free and Open Source Software @beehaw.org
    yoasif @fedia.io

    The Forced Firefox Terms of Use (ToS) Clickwrap Agreement is Here

    www.quippd.com /writing/2025/05/13/the-forced-firefox-terms-of-use-tos-clickwrap-agreement-is-here.html
  • Technology @beehaw.org
    yoasif @fedia.io

    The Forced Firefox Terms of Use (ToS) Clickwrap Agreement is Here

    www.quippd.com /writing/2025/05/13/the-forced-firefox-terms-of-use-tos-clickwrap-agreement-is-here.html

  • Firefox Forever

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  • Not really, when you push immature alternatives when ignoring a real choice. Seems more like you are supporting monopoly by ensuring that actual competitors get ignored - along with even smaller vendors.

    "Look, don't use LibreOffice instead of Microsoft Word, what you really want is VIM!"

  • Firefox Forever

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  • You are saying there is all of this wasted money, but as soon as you are asked for evidence, it is all "I'm not a tax auditor". Defend your claims!

  • Firefox Forever

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  • Firefox Forever

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  • Sorry, you aren't a tax auditor, but you are out here making claims. Try defending them?

  • Firefox Forever

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  • Thanks for letting us know to discount what you say -- if you prefer monopoly over choice, we're really not having the same conversation.

  • Firefox Forever

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  • This you?

    Personally I hope firefox dies as fast as possible so we see some focus on good alternatives.

    Gecko is not a good platform, there is a reason why people who use geckoview eventually all migrate away from it, the most recent example I can think of is wolvic, which hasn't replaced geckoview yet, but does have the version 1.0 of a chromium release now.

    The sooner we get real alternatives to chromium and stop pretending that gecko is one the better. Currently servo is progressing really fast, has good APIs and usability for both a full desktop browser and embedded usecases (but still very immature).

  • Firefox Forever

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  • Firefox Forever

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  • The numbers you have quoted so far don't make a dent in the 400M though - we haven't even reached 1% yet. How much do you think Mozilla is spending on Firefox? How much of that is "extra" per your back of the envelope math?

  • Firefox Forever

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  • Do you have numbers behind these assertions? How much money is spent on "crap"?

  • Firefox Forever

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  • That doesn't really discount the argument. Not a lot of investment for a decent return. Why is that bad?

  • Firefox Forever

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  • Pocket and VPN make money, that would be like firing IRS auditors in the name of efficiency.

    I agree that general purpose AI isn't really all that interesting, since I don't think it is going to drive involvement or investment. I also imagine that it doesn't really cost that much - they don't have any real products behind it, and they all seem clearly experimental.

    I guess I understand your aversion to contributing to "junk projects", but if they are junk projects, there isn't likely to be a ton of investment. Harder to shift the bottom line.

  • Firefox Forever

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  • I see this sentiment sometimes, but just like with the US Federal government, everyone thinks that what everyone else is working on is superfluous.

    It's easy to say generally "there's all this wasted money".

    Yeah? Where?

    https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/annualreport/2024/

    I really am curious. I'm not a fan of AI, so I would agree that those seem superfluous -- but at the same time, the AI based image summarizer actually sounds cool - and good for accessibility. The translation service is VERY useful, and it is amazing that it runs locally.

    So yeah, I'm curious. What is junk?

  • Free and Open Source Software @beehaw.org
    yoasif @fedia.io

    Firefox Forever

    www.quippd.com /writing/2025/05/07/firefox-forever.html
  • Open Source @lemmy.ml
    yoasif @fedia.io

    Google is Killing uBlock Origin. No Chromium Browser is Safe.

    www.quippd.com /writing/2024/10/16/google-is-killing-uBlock-origin-no-chromium-browser-is-safe.html
  • You Should Know @lemmy.world
    yoasif @fedia.io

    YSK: Google is Killing uBlock Origin. No Chromium Browser is Safe.

    www.quippd.com /writing/2024/10/16/google-is-killing-uBlock-origin-no-chromium-browser-is-safe.html
  • Technology @beehaw.org
    yoasif @fedia.io

    Google is Killing uBlock Origin. No Chromium Browser is Safe.

    www.quippd.com /writing/2024/10/16/google-is-killing-uBlock-origin-no-chromium-browser-is-safe.html
  • Privacy @lemmy.ml
    yoasif @fedia.io

    Google is Killing uBlock Origin. No Chromium Browser is Safe.

    www.quippd.com /writing/2024/10/16/google-is-killing-uBlock-origin-no-chromium-browser-is-safe.html
  • Jamaica, Queens @fedia.io
    yoasif @fedia.io

    Hospital Mural by Queens Artist Zeehan Wazed Unveiled - Queens Ledger

    queensledger.com /2023/12/01/hospital-mural-by-queens-artist-zeehan-wazed-unveiled/
  • Reddit Migration @kbin.social
    yoasif @fedia.io

    The Narwhal Kbins at Dawn: A Reddit UserStyle for Kbin

    www.quippd.com /writing/2023/07/10/the-narwhal-kbins-at-dawn-a-Reddit-userstyle-for-Kbin.html
  • Buttcoin - The Crypto-Critical Comedy GODL Mine @kbin.social
    yoasif @fedia.io

    Unofficial Subreddit Migration List (Lemmy, Kbin)

    www.quippd.com /writing/2023/06/15/unofficial-subreddit-migration-list-lemmy-kbin-etc.html
  • True Gaming @kbin.social
    yoasif @fedia.io

    Unofficial Subreddit Migration List (Lemmy, Kbin)

    www.quippd.com /writing/2023/06/15/unofficial-subreddit-migration-list-lemmy-kbin-etc.html
  • Star Trek Social Club @startrek.website
    yoasif @fedia.io

    Unofficial Subreddit Migration List (Lemmy, Kbin)

    www.quippd.com /writing/2023/06/15/unofficial-subreddit-migration-list-lemmy-kbin-etc.html
  • Steam Hardware @sopuli.xyz
    yoasif @fedia.io

    Unofficial Subreddit Migration List (Lemmy, Kbin)

    www.quippd.com /writing/2023/06/15/unofficial-subreddit-migration-list-lemmy-kbin-etc.html
  • Reddit Migration @kbin.social
    yoasif @fedia.io

    With its API Update, Reddit Should Start Paying its Users (Or They Should Leave)

    www.quippd.com /writing/2023/05/03/with-its-API-update-reddit-should-start-paying-its-users.html